How to convince a parent it's time to move

[Kevin68]

Originally Posted by Yadkin

You have to be the parent. Use the same techniques that she used on you.

I took her computer away but I didn't smack her upside the head like I sometimes got. It felt strangely good after all the toys I had taken away from me.

All new e-mail address, new bank account, all new passwords, user IDs, re-establish autopays, what a major pita. She has zero access to anything electronically. I do have a POA.

Several people have told me I should be careful about forcing things on her. No one we know thinks she should be in her house, but they leave it to me to do all the convincing.

[Kevin68]

For those of you who have dealt with sick and dying relatives, sorry you had to go through it. I do appreciate the input and thank you for sharing.

[Aerovette]

My cousin's MIL was taken in by them and her house was sold. Multiple times a week she tells them she wants to go home. I have read that it really is not about "home" but is about familiarity. You are treading on delicate ground as far as preserving her current medical state, yet addressing her needs. What may be best medically or from a safety perspective, can have a very detrimental impact on her mental state.

[DDSLT5]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

This may seem a HUGE change, but would it be possible for you both to move into a house that has a detached or attached MIL suite?

I've looked at a few houses that have a separate apartment situated so the driveway goes between the house and the suite, but the upstairs is connected via a bridged room.

This is a high dollar version, but there are variations.

Excellent! I've been thinking about this exact kind of thing! I'm going to look up that place and others like it!

[Taurus]

It's not easy for sure. In 2012 my parents were in their 80's living in Phoenix and it was clear it was becoming a struggle to take of themselves. My son was in the Air Force and was stationed at Luke AFB at the time so he kept an eye on them as I lived here in SLC where we're all from. My son got transferred to the Academy that year and a few months later dad had another heart attack. It was obvious that they needed to move back home to SLC after 40 years in Phoenix.

Mom was excited but dad was worried about the logistics of selling, buying and moving so we had a deal, I would do it all. I put their house on the market and started looking by us for a new place and as fate would have it we saw a neighbor 5 doors down moving out one day. My wife approached them and they told her they were giving the house back to that bank so we made them an offer that gave them $10K in cash and we refinanced with the bank, got very lucky. Their house sold the same week and the stars just sort of aligned.

I hired a mover, went to close on their house, got the house packed up, drove them to SLC and closed on the new house in time for the movers. They spent their last years living in an identical house to mine just a block down the street, it was better than anything that could be scripted.

Bottom line, I had to take the lead and make it happen or they never would have left. I was insistent, offered them a better alternative and did all the work for my dad and I was glad to do it.

[Frankie the Fink]

Ugh! Been through it with my own parents and then the wife's later on. One of the more heart-wrenching aspects of aging.....moving her into a MIL suite or a small separate house are temporary solutions, expensive and, unfortunately, things can accelerate suddenly.....sooner or later will require help that you aren't prepared to give.

Having a "live-in" aid didn't work with my Dad; he took a cruel pleasure in running those kind people off after a time. Many on here with lots of experience in this area, but you should consider consulting with an "elder care" attorney.

Best thing I did in my Dad's case....they can guide you through various options and at least get you the legal backup to handle her affairs as things deteriorate - and they will, sadly.

[owc6]

Originally Posted by Yadkin

You have to be the parent. Use the same techniques that she used on you.

My MIL was dying of cancer, her second husband died at home months before. My wife flew up to NY several times and stayed weeks to get ready for her to move to a nursing home close by to us. We set a date, she made ever excuse. We addressed all the real issues, ignored the false ones. When the date came, we drove up, spent a few days wrapping things up at the house and got her signatures on documents. We stuffed her in the car at 4:00 in the morning to avoid traffic, and I drove 12 hours with one break, straight to the nursing home.

****, if I was your MIL, you should have just shot me right then and there.

That's horrible as you describe it.

And it's (generally) cheaper to have in-home care than nursing home expenses for palliative. Pawning off a dying loved one to a place that is not any sort of "home" (their own or someone who they love) to basically die alone is heartless.

The nursing home might have been close to you, but it not the same as being with you.

[MidLifeinMI]

Originally Posted by Kevin68

She doesn't have mobility issues. This would be easier if she had more people and activity around her and wasn't so damn unreasonable. Like your mother, her fate will be forced upon her by some traumatic event, which is my brother's strategy. At that point the options will be very limited. As it is with a fading memory, moving into new surroundings might be a setback. I think she is good enough now that she can adapt to a new normal. Waiting can't possibly be a easier time than now.

Your situation is much like what we went through with my mom a few years ago; she was just as you describe your mom - stubborn, independent, OCD and only considering 2 outcomes (death, or stay in her own home). Neither me nor my brother lived close (I was 350 miles away, brother 2000), and with mom in her late 80's, we needed her to agree to a move to independent living. We took her to visit several, but there was always *something* unacceptable, and we were stuck at square one.

Unfortunately, it took that traumatic event to get her to finally move. Alone at home, she fell and broke a leg and wasn't found until about 3 days later, after a concerned neighbor called the police for a wellness check. Thankfully she survived, but recovery from the broken leg wasn't 100% and she ended up needing to use a walker.

That in itself wasn't the "traumatic event", it was the realization she could never drive again, as her last stronghold of independence was taken from her. Once she finished rehab, we ended up getting her into a nice independent living facility. I wish we could say this was a happy ending, but because of her stubbornness, unsociability, and OCD, it was unfortunately just the beginning of a rapid downturn in her overall health.

OP, you have some difficult times ahead - stay strong.

[Frankie the Fink]

Originally Posted by owc6

****, if I was your MIL, you should have just shot me right then and there.

That's horrible as you describe it.

And it's (generally) cheaper to have in-home care than nursing home expenses for palliative. Pawning off a dying loved one to a place that is not any sort of "home" (their own or someone who they love) to basically die alone is heartless.

The nursing home might have been close to you, but it not the same as being with you.

A bit harsh, my wife and her 3 sisters kept their Mom with dementia in a rotating fashion between homes for 2-3 months at a time each; but at some point you can't do it anymore - especially when the caregivers are elderly.

When the caregivers have their own health/strength issues and doctor's appointments and other obligations and can't mulehaul dead weight about for bathing and other needs it becomes untenable and the patient can actually be hurt too. And the sisters did have "in home" care for a long time until the Mom's needs were too great, medically.

Wife and I both have Lont Term Care insurance we bought in our 50's and told the daughter to not feel one bit bad about using it when needed.

[Yadkin]

Originally Posted by owc6

****, if I was your MIL, you should have just shot me right then and there.

That's horrible as you describe it.

And it's (generally) cheaper to have in-home care than nursing home expenses for palliative. Pawning off a dying loved one to a place that is not any sort of "home" (their own or someone who they love) to basically die alone is heartless.

The nursing home might have been close to you, but it not the same as being with you.

It wasn't a fun ride but it was necessary.

Her mom had a full time nurse at her home. She also had a significant estate so money wasn't an issue. My wife, a recently retired doctor who specialized in geriatric care, was far more capable of managing her mother's care to a facility close by. The factify that she chose was not the closest, but the best, and the group that she retired from provided medical services to the nursing home. So she was able to be there generally about 18-24 hours per week for the last 8 weeks of Mom's life.

[NEED-A-VETTE]

Originally Posted by Kevin68

She is refusing all available options. Is my only option to have her declared incompetent and go to court so I can do what needs to be done for her to be safe?

My grandmother was the same with the stubbornness. My mom and her siblings finally had to tell her that your options are XYZ. If you don’t make the choice, we will have to make the choice for you (by going the incompetency route).

When incompetency was brought up, I think she realized the severity of the situation and finally made the decision based on the options they gave her.

Originally Posted by Aerovette

This may seem a HUGE change, but would it be possible for you both to move into a house that has a detached or attached MIL suite?

I've looked at a few houses that have a separate apartment situated so the driveway goes between the house and the suite, but the upstairs is connected via a bridged room.

This is a high dollar version, but there are variations.

This is a good idea. I’ve been looking into adding an ADU to my property for just this reason.

Originally Posted by Kevin68

I'm 30 miles from any place that has a rent-a-nurse. I really think she needs to be around people more regularly and make new friends.

30 miles really isn’t that far. And while the location of the home health business may be 30 miles away, they likely have nurses that live closer to you than that. If they serve your area, let them worry about the logistics and distance.

[PLRX]

This one is easy...

Call social services, and they start the process. The court will make her take all tests, and obviously (based on your post), she will end up in a house. Denial is the cherry on top. The cycle of life is a game we will never win.

If you need to take action regarding a situation where someone needs help, you can contact social services. They will start the necessary process. Eventually, the court will require the individual to undergo several tests, and based on the results, they may be placed in a suitable residence. Due to your distance, the state can assign a "legal guardian." Denial of the situation will only make matters worse. Remember, the cycle of life is a game we can never win.

[Kevin68]

Originally Posted by NEED-A-VETTE

30 miles really isn’t that far. And while the location of the home health business may be 30 miles away, they likely have nurses that live closer to you than that. If they serve your area, let them worry about the logistics and distance.

I still have the problem of not even started to plan a build and that she really doesn't need nursing care at the moment. She's quite mobile and steady on her feet. I see this turning into a memory care situation in the not too distant future. She doesn't want to live with either my brother or I and I'm taking her at her word. Her constant presence would be a problem for both of us, two weeks is about our limit.

I love my mother, want her to be safe, and live the rest of her life with the top-of-the line surroundings. She can easily afford it. IMO, she needs to be around people more regularly and have a regular routine of activities. Just the social/peer pressure of having to smile, laugh, keep up the pace and be polite will be helpful. When we visited the place I found, she seemed to think that she "isn't as bad off" (physically) as they are, but from my/wife's perspective she is in the middle of (or slightly below) the norm.

[NEED-A-VETTE]

Originally Posted by Kevin68

I still have the problem of not even started to plan a build and that she really doesn't need nursing care at the moment. She's quite mobile and steady on her feet. I see this turning into a memory care situation in the not too distant future. She doesn't want to live with either my brother or I and I'm taking her at her word. Her constant presence would be a problem for both of us, two weeks is about our limit.

I love my mother, want her to be safe, and live the rest of her life with the top-of-the line surroundings. She can easily afford it. IMO, she needs to be around people more regularly and have a regular routine of activities. Just the social/peer pressure of having to smile, laugh, keep up the pace and be polite will be helpful. When we visited the place I found, she seemed to think that she "isn't as bad off" (physically) as they are, but from my/wife's perspective she is in the middle of (or slightly below) the norm.

Meals on wheels may not be a bad thing. Thats regular interaction and someone getting eyes on her regularly.

Hiring someone to go to the house maybe every other weekday to do some house straightening, laundry and such may not be a bad idea…but that’s not generally covered my Medicare.

Call the senior community center near her and see if they have volunteers that will drop off and pick up. Even if they don’t, Uber her there and back. Get a calendar of their activities and make arrangements for her to go. Like you said, she may like the company of people her own age.

[Don Rickles]

Originally Posted by PLRX

This one is easy...

Call social services, and they start the process. The court will make her take all tests, and obviously (based on your post), she will end up in a house. Denial is the cherry on top. The cycle of life is a game we will never win.

If you need to take action regarding a situation where someone needs help, you can contact social services. They will start the necessary process. Eventually, the court will require the individual to undergo several tests, and based on the results, they may be placed in a suitable residence. Due to your distance, the state can assign a "legal guardian." Denial of the situation will only make matters worse. Remember, the cycle of life is a game we can never win.

Hate to be your parent

[slewfoot]

Originally Posted by Kevin68

Sorry if this is long. I'm not one to ask strangers for personal advice, but this is (mostly) a good group of people and some have gone through this.

Mother, 86, has lived in the same house for 45 years, friends and neighbors have moved or died, neighborhood going downhill. I live 4 hours away, brother 2,000 miles. We both work. She is in the early stages of dementia but refuses to get tested (older sisters had dementia, too). She's had a couple mishaps with the car, none serious. She's a very low fall risk, can feed and bathe herself fine. Not outgoing at all but will participate in conversations if someone else starts it and is generally described as "sweet" (although I know a completely different other side). Claims to wish she is dead, yet faithfully takes her meds, eats very healthy, goes to the Dr., etc. Until very recently, brother has been in denial about the severity of the problem but she's gone down hill very quickly. I offered to build her a small house on my property a couple years ago, but at this point, the time to get something built will make it a huge waste. Her two preferences: 1) death and 2) staying in her house are not feasible. I found a very nice independent living place near me that also has assisted living and memory care when the time comes.

She's OCD with cleanliness, won't "live in someone else's dirt" and hasn't her whole life...always a brand new house. The loneliness is killing her and accelerating her condition. She doesn't want to live with my brother or I, and frankly, we and our wives are relieved to hear that. She's been with me the last week and her alertness and memory are noticeably better. She's with me so I can, for third time in 6 months, fix her computer ****-ups and organize her finances and paperwork. The latest, I thwarted an attempt to wire $450K out of her Schwab account and from the AC guy to sell her an $18K 3.5 ton unit that isn't broken. I monitor her email and needless to say, she no longer has access to her computer and all apps have been deleted from her phone. She hasn't taken any responsibility for this and has a long list of people to blame that aren't herself. Refuses to acknowledge that she may have clicked on a bad link, been suckered, or made a driving error.

She is refusing all available options. Is my only option to have her declared incompetent and go to court so I can do what needs to be done for her to be safe?

Based on first hand experience. If you or your brother go in on any type of home care, Get all the jewelry out and anything else worth a sht. Do an inventory because it will get stolen.

[Kevin68]

Originally Posted by NEED-A-VETTE

Meals on wheels may not be a bad thing. Thats regular interaction and someone getting eyes on her regularly.

Hiring someone to go to the house maybe every other weekday to do some house straightening, laundry and such may not be a bad idea…but that’s not generally covered my Medicare.

Call the senior community center near her and see if they have volunteers that will drop off and pick up. Even if they don’t, Uber her there and back. Get a calendar of their activities and make arrangements for her to go. Like you said, she may like the company of people her own age.

Those are all good thoughts for a normal person, but only delay the inevitable. Without some in-person prodding, she will no show. I think getting her into an environment where she can transition from independent, assisted, memory care will be easier for her. I think she is well enough to adapt to living and laughing like a normal person. Whether she can let herself not GAF for the remainder of her life is a whole other question.

Originally Posted by slewfoot

Based on first hand experience. If you or your brother go in on any type of home care, Get all the jewelry out and anything else worth a sht. Do an inventory because it will get stolen.

Thanks, I heard this from others' experience. She can afford to do whatever she wants and has more money than she ever has. I don't think I can effectively manage/trust home care from 4 hours away. She manages to feed herself and keep the house spotless (minus the papers strewn everywhere).

Plus, I'm not sure what a home caregiver would do. Her white carpet is spotless and perfectly vacuumed with absolutely NO wheel marks between tracks. She could have been the person who mows the grass at a MLB stadium. Until very recently this woman would slide the refrigerator out monthly and vacuum and dust behind it. It upsets her that I refuse to do it when I visit. She regularly dusts the tops of the door and window casings. She has 60 year old aluminum pans that are well used but look brand new. Two sets of 16 Lennox china and Waterford crystal, all in perfect condition. Seriously OCD and impossible to please. I've come to realize my dad was a saint.

[Rodnok1]

Tough situation... No one fit all answer unfortunately.
I think most of us can relate to wanting to stay at home and we also know we won't realize it's not always a good idea.
Unfortunately it may come down to you being appointed to manage all of her affairs through the courts and making the hard decision to have her move to assisted living or MIL suite. If she won't go willingly and you know she should you're gonna feel like a heel when have to make her move, even though it's what's absolutely best for her.
I don't envy you at all as it's coming for my in laws very soon also especially with FIL.
I constantly worry about them being cheated put of life savings by relatives and scammers (a few of the relatives they have out lived thankfully).

Best of luck with your mom, you're a good son.

[Don Rickles]

Originally Posted by Kevin68

Those are all good thoughts for a normal person, but only delay the inevitable. Without some in-person prodding, she will no show. I think getting her into an environment where she can transition from independent, assisted, memory care will be easier for her. I think she is well enough to adapt to living and laughing like a normal person. Whether she can let herself not GAF for the remainder of her life is a whole other question.



Thanks, I heard this from others' experience. She can afford to do whatever she wants and has more money than she ever has. I don't think I can effectively manage/trust home care from 4 hours away. She manages to feed herself and keep the house spotless (minus the papers strewn everywhere).

Plus, I'm not sure what a home caregiver would do. Her white carpet is spotless and perfectly vacuumed with absolutely NO wheel marks between tracks. She could have been the person who mows the grass at a MLB stadium. Until very recently this woman would slide the refrigerator out monthly and vacuum and dust behind it. It upsets her that I refuse to do it when I visit. She regularly dusts the tops of the door and window casings. She has 60 year old aluminum pans that are well used but look brand new. Two sets of 16 Lennox china and Waterford crystal, all in perfect condition. Seriously OCD and impossible to please. I've come to realize my dad was a saint.

My wifes copper pots and the good silver all need polishing. You wanna lend her to me?

[Kevin68]

Originally Posted by Don Rickles

My wifes copper pots and the good silver all need polishing. You wanna lend her to me?

I'll lend her to you for a 10-year term