The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by Mick

But Phred says the infrastructure will just appear, as if by magic, like it did in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. You just have to believe.

Phred never said that.

Phred understand supply and demand; if there is demand for infrastructure, companies will step up to supply it - just like they did in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

[Unsuspicious]

Using taxes to shape society is nothing new, but seeing sticker prices go up the same amount as the credit just made it a dupe for people thinking they got a good deal. It's like doubling the price of newports then offering 50% off sale. The tax credit is straight profit margin for EV makers with the added benefit of brainwashing the public.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

I do not believe anyone is in disagreement that any and every tax code advantage should be used. The argument is that the EV tax credit is the government pushing an agenda at the taxpayers expense.

.GOV has been pushing agendas as long as .GOV has existed.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Mick

Like I said before, I'm glad he went into IT, and not financial advisory. Hopefully, he knows something about IT.

Maybe you should do math classes. If someone buys something that costs $10k and saves $2k per year, it is a 20% ROI. Most of my homes are 20 to 30% ROI, so, each house pays for itself every 5 years or so.
The great thing about solar is that you don't have to pay income taxes in the $2000 you save every year while I have to pay taxes on rental income.

[Mick]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

Phred never said that.

Phred understand supply and demand; if there is demand for infrastructure, companies will step up to supply it - just like they did in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

Samey same.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Maybe you should do math classes.

Maybe.

If someone that costs $10k and saves $2k per year, it is a 20% ROI. Most of my homes are 20 to 30% ROI, so, each house pays for itself every 5 years or so.
The great thing about solar is that you don't have to pay income taxes in the $20000 you save every year while I have to pay taxes on rental income.

Nope, I'm good.

[sublime1996525]

Isn’t the solar panel warranty void if it’s not installed by a licensed professional?

[GTOguy]

Originally Posted by GTOguy

Deflection. Give me a reason. Factual. Not opinion or hype.

I've been involved with all types of vehicles all my life. I know better.

Come on, give me a reason why EV's are the answer with today's technology, which is much the same as it was 120 years ago when they were everywhere.

How about it?

AAAAAnd we're still CRICKETS. Because there IS no real reason.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by sublime1996525

Isn’t the solar panel warranty void if it’s not installed by a licensed professional?

Depends where you buy them. Many companies target DIY customers.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by GTOguy

AAAAAnd we're still CRICKETS. Because there IS no real reason.

hmmm. battery technology changed.
600++++ mile batteries that charge in 5 to 10 mins exist. All that is needed is mass production.
Once production capacity is there, EVs will take over. Sure, it takes some time to build sufficient battery factories but once they can make sufficient of those batteries, ICE will be phased out by car makers.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by 99 pewtercoupe

Did you mean the Pontiac Aztec?

While ugly... at least it was functional.

I didn't think it was possible but Elon actually found a way to make the Aztek look good by comparison.

The Model S isn't hideous but everything else with a Tesla emblem is pretty f-ing terrible looking with the "truck" leading the way.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

All that is needed is mass production.

Is that all?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you've never worked in any manufacturing field... and certainly nothing automotive?

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Is that all?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you've never worked in any manufacturing field... and certainly nothing automotive?

If Tesla can go from making 3100 cars in 2012 to making 1.85 million in 2023 (11 years), then battery manufacturers can go from making a few to millions of car batteries in 25 years. All it takes is building factories.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

If Tesla can go from making 3100 cars in 2012 to making 1.85 million in 2023 (11 years), then battery manufacturers can go from making a few to millions of car batteries in 25 years. All it takes is building factories.

Are there enough raw materials? And enough child slave labor to mine the materials?

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

Are there enough raw materials? And enough child slave labor to mine the materials?

Yes, Lithium, the main component in batteries is one of the most common minerals on the planet. Virtually ever desert is full of lithium. Cobalt is on the way out as many batteries in new EV's don't even use cobalt anymore. Tesla's entire Model 3 Lineup used Cobalt free batteries by CATL. (Lithium Iron Phosphate)
All the other materials are extremely common in the earth's crust.. like Nickel and iron.
New technologies also use Sodium (extremely common) and other common minerals. There will be no shortage of materials, especially since many EV makers are getting away from Cobalt.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

All it takes is building factories.

Yea, just build some factories. No biggie.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Yea, just build some factories. No biggie.

And, once those factories are built, nobody will want to drive anything but an EV. GSC3 says so.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Yes, Lithium, the main component in batteries is one of the most common minerals on the planet. Virtually ever desert is full of lithium. Cobalt is on the way out as many batteries in new EV's don't even use cobalt anymore. Tesla's entire Model 3 Lineup used Cobalt free batteries by CATL. (Lithium Iron Phosphate)
All the other materials are extremely common in the earth's crust.. like Nickel and iron.
New technologies also use Sodium (extremely common) and other common minerals. There will be no shortage of materials, especially since many EV makers are getting away from Cobalt.

Kinda like oil, plenty available only need to mine (drill) for it.

Of course...they have to drill for oil to be able to fuel the equipment to mine for the materials needed for the EV batteries.
So without oil...there would be no EV's

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

Kinda like oil, plenty available only need to mine (drill) for it.

Of course...they have to drill for oil to be able to fuel the equipment to mine for the materials needed for the EV batteries.
So without oil...there would be no EV's

we will always need oil as well as a ton of minerals. There would be no houses if there was no mining. There would be no cars etc. etc.
Mining and drilling is all needed and will always be needed unless we want to go back living in caves and driving in Flintstone type vehicles..

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

And, once those factories are built, nobody will want to drive anything but an EV. GSC3 says so.

Why would anyone want a high maintenance gas car if you can go just as far with an EV and charge up in the same time it takes to fill the gas tank?
Why drive a car that requires oil changes if you can be maintenance free? Why have a vehicle that wastes tons of energy idling? Why have a vehicle that depends on a government regulated commodity if you can charge your car at home on solar and/or batteries??

[DJ_Critterus]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

If Tesla can go from making 3100 cars in 2012 to making 1.85 million in 2023 (11 years), then battery manufacturers can go from making a few to millions of car batteries in 25 years. All it takes is building factories.

And strip mining the earth until there's no place for vegetation to grow.....